Curse

Kamatsu · Jan 11, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Hi,

PS. Before you read, I live in Australia so no Best Buy's, etc. And I'm buy'ing locally and not going to order over-sea's or such (before anyone says anything, I've checked prices.. and the local store I deal with is only a few $ more expensive than order'ing online... I buy local for the covenience of getting my items quicker, the personal service and the cheaper return of faulty/damaged good if I get any)

My old DVD Rom just packed in and I've decided it's time I got myself a CD/DVD burner, but I'm not too sure on what I want to get. I want a burner because I need to back stuff up as well as file stuff away, and my only access to a burner is at a family members - which means whenever I need to do a backup or such I need to pull my HD out and plug it into their comp.. and that can be annoying and I'm never sure when I'll be going over..

Whatever I get must be able to play DVD's - not for playing movies (I have a proper DVD player for that), but I have some games and programs which are on DVD's and I don't want to have to go and re-buy them all! As for the burning of CD's or DVD's.. I have no idea which would be better.. Like I'd love to be able to burn all my files for Morrowind, NWN, GW, etc on their own DVD's - like right now I have a spindle of ~25 CD's full of burnt files for those games, as well as a few CD's of backed up install files, pictures & documents I need to keep... which is why I considered getting a DVD burner rather than a CD Burner.. saves my needing multiple disc's to store everything like I do now.

Oh yeah, I'm also after reliability and a drive that can take being used frequently. I had my last drive for 4-5 years before finally packing in (or was it 3-4? LOL can't remember.. but definately no shorter than 3 and no longer than 5) and used it a lot.. so not looking for some delicate flower DVD burner that you can use once and then leave in the freezer for 2 days to cool off from it's use! hehe

But I freely admit whenever I look at the list of options for DVD burner's I'm completely lost - there's just way too many options.. And google isn't much help.. thought I'd post here and ask here for help and see what option's/opinion's came up here..

Some questions:

1. Whats DVD dual Layer? I see this listed seperatedly to other DVD burners..

2. Whats the difference between the followi8ng codes:

a.
- DVD-/+R/RW
- 16X16 DVD-/+

b. (these are different formats?)
- DVD+R/RW
- DVD-R/RW
- DVD-RAM

3. Like from the following list, any reccomendations?

- ASUS White DRW-1608P2 Drive; 16x DVD+-RW DL, Software
- ASUS Black DRW-1608P2S Super-Multi; 16x DVD+-RW DL, Software
- LG INT IDE 16X DVDRW SILVER (vendor code: GSA-4167BBS)
- PIONEER DVR-A10XLB DVD-/+R/RW DL BLACK|16X16 RETAIL Dual Layer (8X). 5 X RAM, includes Nero Software Suite.
- PIONEER DVR-110BK 16X16 DVD-/+R/RW/RAM|OEM BLACK DUAL LAYER 8X, DVD-RAM 5X **NO SOFTWARE INCLUDED** (UNBRANDED) MULTI DRIVE
- SAMSUNG 16X DVD+/-RW DUAL LAYER INTERNAL DRIVE, BLACK RETAIL PACK W/ NERO BURNING S/W (vendor code: SH-W162C/RSBN)
- SONY DRU810A INT 16X DUAL LAYER DVD BURN 16X+/16X- DVD Writer with 8X+/6X- RW, 8X+R DL, 4X-R DL

Funny enough but those are the only DVD-Burners in my price range. There's a whole lot more that are way out of my budget.. of course there's a whole lotts CD-burners and DVD/CDR combo's in my budget range... maybe I should consider them and forget the DVD burner plans till another day?

4. ok, list of DVD/CDRW Combo's:

- ASUS Black CB-5216A Combo Drive; 52x/ 32x/ 52x H/H CD-RW
- LG ELECTRONICS LGE CDRW & DVD COMBO BEIGE (vendor code: CDRWLG4521B)
- LITEON 52X32X52 CDRW 16X DVD (vendor code: CDRWLTHC5232K)
- LITEON SOHC-5236V COMBO BLACK DRIVE RETAIL W/NERO (vendor code: SOHC-5236V(BLACK))
- SONY CD-R & COMBO DRIVE CRX835E11B NERO (vendor code: CRX835E11B)

Ok, so that list is smaller than the DVD burner's.. but it's like 90% of the ones listed at the store I'm using, whereas there were a lot, lot more DVD Burner's..

5. Are Burnable DVD's the same as burnable CD's.. like with a CD if you don't use all the space you can come back later and burn more stuff onto the same CD.. and keep doing that till you use the space up.. can you do the same with a burnable DVD? Or is it a 1 shot use.. where you run the burn operation and then can never add anything more to the DVD?

anyways, thats all I can think of for now. any advice would be appreciated.. or any pointer's to helpful web pages (and please, no "just go look on tomshardware".. hehe). Thanx in advance!

Kaguya · Jan 11, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

1. Whats DVD dual Layer? I see this listed seperatedly to other DVD burners..

Dual Layer DVD, as the name says, has two data layers, doubling it's data capacity from 4500MB to something around 9000MB. The disks are lot more expensive than single layer tho... DL recorders also record to normal DVDs, DL is just a cherry on top of the cake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

2. Whats the difference between the following codes:

a.
- DVD-/+R/RW
- 16X16 DVD-/+

b. (these are different formats?)
- DVD+R/RW
- DVD-R/RW
- DVD-RAM

DVD+R and DVD-R are two different standards. +R is technically more superior, whereas -R is more supported by 'traditional' DVD-players (ie. can burn movies as DVDs on -R and have higher chance on watching it on standalone DVD-player) I prefer DVD+R tho, I mainly store data, and +R has superior error correction. 16X usually is the recording speed (they go from 4X to 16X these days I think), reading is much faster, and usually DVD+RW/DVD-RWs burn slower (just like CD-RWs do on CD-burners. And RW=ReWritable)

DVD-RAM is a dead fish, supported by only few companies (LG atleast), not supported at all by other makers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

3. Like from the following list, any reccomendations?

- ASUS White DRW-1608P2 Drive; 16x DVD+-RW DL, Software
- ASUS Black DRW-1608P2S Super-Multi; 16x DVD+-RW DL, Software
- LG INT IDE 16X DVDRW SILVER (vendor code: GSA-4167BBS)
- PIONEER DVR-A10XLB DVD-/+R/RW DL BLACK|16X16 RETAIL Dual Layer (8X). 5 X RAM, includes Nero Software Suite.
- PIONEER DVR-110BK 16X16 DVD-/+R/RW/RAM|OEM BLACK DUAL LAYER 8X, DVD-RAM 5X **NO SOFTWARE INCLUDED** (UNBRANDED) MULTI DRIVE
- SAMSUNG 16X DVD+/-RW DUAL LAYER INTERNAL DRIVE, BLACK RETAIL PACK W/ NERO BURNING S/W (vendor code: SH-W162C/RSBN)
- SONY DRU810A INT 16X DUAL LAYER DVD BURN 16X+/16X- DVD Writer with 8X+/6X- RW, 8X+R DL, 4X-R DL

Funny enough but those are the only DVD-Burners in my price range. There's a whole lot more that are way out of my budget.. of course there's a whole lotts CD-burners and DVD/CDR combo's in my budget range... maybe I should consider them and forget the DVD burner plans till another day?

4. ok, list of DVD/CDRW Combo's:

- ASUS Black CB-5216A Combo Drive; 52x/ 32x/ 52x H/H CD-RW
- LG ELECTRONICS LGE CDRW & DVD COMBO BEIGE (vendor code: CDRWLG4521B)
- LITEON 52X32X52 CDRW 16X DVD (vendor code: CDRWLTHC5232K)
- LITEON SOHC-5236V COMBO BLACK DRIVE RETAIL W/NERO (vendor code: SOHC-5236V(BLACK))
- SONY CD-R & COMBO DRIVE CRX835E11B NERO (vendor code: CRX835E11B)

Ok, so that list is smaller than the DVD burner's.. but it's like 90% of the ones listed at the store I'm using, whereas there were a lot, lot more DVD Burner's..

3. and 4. are the same. All DVD-burners should be able to burn CDs as well. I haven't seen a DVD-only recorder this far. And for brand.. Liteon tends to make the cheapest ones, but if I'd have to buy a new DVD-recorder now, I would get either LG or Pioneer. Prolly Pioneer, just because it comes packed with Nero burning software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

5. Are Burnable DVD's the same as burnable CD's.. like with a CD if you don't use all the space you can come back later and burn more stuff onto the same CD.. and keep doing that till you use the space up.. can you do the same with a burnable DVD? Or is it a 1 shot use.. where you run the burn operation and then can never add anything more to the DVD?

Yes, DVDs work just the same way as CDs, you can multisession on them as well.

EternalTempest · Jan 11, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Wow Kaguya

Only think I can add / correct is this

Quote:

Q) 5. Are Burnable DVD's the same as burnable CD's.. like with a CD if you don't use all the space you can come back later and burn more stuff onto the same CD.. and keep doing that till you use the space up.. can you do the same with a burnable DVD? Or is it a 1 shot use.. where you run the burn operation and then can never add anything more to the DVD?

A)Yes, DVDs work just the same way as CDs, you can multisession on them as well.

DVD+R can do multisession, DVD-R can not on a lot of drives (or if it works, you want to try and avoid it). For multisession you do want to use DVD+R

Dex · Jan 11, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I would definitely suggest getting a Dual Layer capable drive. The media is coming down in price fast, and will soon be very reasonable. I spotted some good Ritek 8x DVD+R DL media the other day for about $2 / disc. That's way down from $5-$8 just a few months ago. Since you can get DL drives for around the same prices as others you'd be silly not to.

Also, not all drives are equal. Some drives are tolerant of more brands of media than others. Some also write more disc errors than others. Read some reviews. I used to always recommend Plextors because of their error-free writing to almost any media, but their newer DL drives are not so great. Last time I checked BenQ (yes, BenQ) had some of the best DL drives. You don't want to buy a drive that constantly cranks out coasters, do you?

Kamatsu · Jan 12, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Kaguya - Thanks for the informative post, it helped clear stuff up for me

Quote:

Dual Layer DVD, as the name says, has two data layers, doubling it's data capacity from 4500MB to something around 9000MB. The disks are lot more expensive than single layer tho... DL recorders also record to normal DVDs, DL is just a cherry on top of the cake.

Ah, so a normal DVD only has 4.5 GB capacity? I can see then why people would want DL.. especially if you have a lot of data to store ..like me and my ~27 CD's of data.. thats 27 * 700 = 18,900 MB (18.457 GB?) of data.. I'd need 2? DL DVD's to back my burns up or 4? normal ones.. heh

As for the cost of the disc's themselves, as long as they weren't rediculiously expensive I probably wouldn't mind as I don't plan on going out and trying to buy masses of them anyways.

Quote:

3. and 4. are the same. All DVD-burners should be able to burn CDs as well. I haven't seen a DVD-only recorder this far. And for brand.. Liteon tends to make the cheapest ones, but if I'd have to buy a new DVD-recorder now, I would get either LG or Pioneer. Prolly Pioneer, just because it comes packed with Nero burning software.

I listed both DVD Burners and the DVD/CDRW combo's seperately because of the "pricing" - the only DVD burner's in my range are the budget model's.. which I thought people might consider "garbage".. I can't afford the more expensive (better? LOL) one's.. while 90% of the DVD/CDRW combo drives are in my prce range..

Since I'm looking for reliability and being able to constently be able to use the drive.. I wasn't sure if people thought the cheaper DVD burner's would be reliable enough.

You know, I've seen people bag LiteOn drives, but I have to say I was impressed at how long my DVD Rom lasted.. and it was a Liteon. For the amount of use it got I was happy. and yes, there drives do tend to be on the cheaper side of things..

Question - with the Pioneer drives.. there's 2 options I listed.. an unbranded model and a branded model..Apart from the unbranded one comming with no software.. just whats the difference if you know? I'd prolly go for the branded one for the software though.. just curious.

Good to know that DVD's can be multisessioned (ah! I knew there's be a proper term for what I was doing! hehe).

Dex - Thanx for the input, but I'm afraid BenQ drives are beyond my budget right now... well, it would be majorly pushing the budget to get it. And it doesn't come with any software either.

- BenQ DW1640 (BLACK) DVD+R OPTICAL DRIVE SPEED 16X WRITING, 8X REWRITING, 16X READING, DVD-R SPEED 16X WRITING, 6X REWRITING, 16X READING DOUBLE LAYER DVD+R SPEED WRITING (Is this even an internal IDE drive? It does say it's interface is E-IDE/ATAPI..)

EternalTempest - good to know that, since I would be multisessioning a lot. so would have to make sure I'd be using DVD+R. Always good to know these things

Dex · Jan 12, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

This article is over a year old, but take a look to get an idea of where most brands are placing in the market. The standings haven't changed too much since then:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2260

Also, check this one out, it's part of NEC's 3500 series. I don't know how good this particular drive is, but other drives in the series have been rated well. I know you won't mail order, I'm just posting it as a reference.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827152058

Kamatsu · Jan 12, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Dex - thank you for th elink to that articule. It was informative and helped me quite a bit.. also finding other relevant articules wasn't too hard for me. I always dread trying to find reviews and aricules for stuff like this while on dial-up... there's way, way too many sites geared for high speed ADSL/Cable connections with each page having a gazillion images (just take a look at gamespot for a classic example) that it can take ages to just find the articules/information your after.

In the end, it looks like the options come down to BenQ, Sony or Pioneer.. in that particular order... at least if you follow what they have to say about the drives.. Here's the articules I read:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...spx?i=2581&p=1
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...spx?i=2533&p=1
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...spx?i=2470&p=1

As for pricing..

BenQ = $115
Sony = $100
Pioneer (Branded) = $100
Pioneer (UnBranded) = $76
LG = $89 (and doesn't say if it does DL or not...)

Question - You can use these drives as your ordsanary everyday drive right? Or would you be better off getting a seperate DVD-Rom drive? I do want the burn ability, but I'm also trying to find something I can just use normally...

Dex · Jan 12, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

Question - You can use these drives as your ordsanary everyday drive right? Or would you be better off getting a seperate DVD-Rom drive? I do want the burn ability, but I'm also trying to find something I can just use normally...

Sure. A DVD+/-RW drive is about as much of an "all-in-one" drive as you can get. You should be able to use it for anything.

Lerxst_of_Syrinx · Jan 12, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

One more thing...

Combo Drives can only read DVDs they cannot burn DVDs. They can read/write CDs, though.

Also, Dual Layer media (9GB) is very expensive compared to Single Layer (4.5GB).

Dex · Jan 12, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerxst_of_Syrinx

Also, Dual Layer media (9GB) is very expensive compared to Single Layer (4.5GB).

Not as much as it used to be. You can score a 100-disc spindle of good 16x DVD+R single layer media for $30-$35. That's 30-35 cents per disc. I saw 5-packs of good (same brand) 4x DVD+R DL media the other day at $10.35 for a 5-pack, which comes out to $2.07 per disc. Compare that to the $5-$8 you could get it for several months ago, and I think we're finally looking at DL media coming down to reasonable prices. That's why I was saying that it wouldn't be a good investment to buy a single layer drive at this point.

Kaguya · Jan 12, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

K
Question - with the Pioneer drives.. there's 2 options I listed.. an unbranded model and a branded model..Apart from the unbranded one comming with no software.. just whats the difference if you know? I'd prolly go for the branded one for the software though.. just curious.

The 'branded' models go by name 'retail' here, and the 'unbranded' as bulk.

The branded retail drives come in a pretty box, include all the cables, screws, drivers/software and sometimes something more.

Bulk drives are meant for manufacturers, and they almost always have only the drive, nothing else. So naturally, bulk drives are much cheaper than the retail ones, but you'd need to get the recording software unless you already had one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex

I used to always recommend Plextors because of their error-free writing to almost any media, but their newer DL drives are not so great.

I have Plextor's PX-708A, and it has been through warranty 3 times now

Well 2 year on-site so not a biggie, just silly tho. First drive lasted for ~month, the next warrantied drive lasted for ~1-2 days, and the third one a week. Then they finally sent me a working unit, that has been doing great for few years

But cons on Plextor drives are great. As far as I know, Plextor drives are the only ones I've seen that can bypass any copy-protection on audio-cd's, it reads them no problem without any hassle. Seems like it also somehow cheats copyprotections on some games, atleast my System Shock 2 starts up a lot faster on the PX drive, like it doesn't even do the safedisk-part. Haven't had a single coaster on my 708A after I got this working one either.

Dex · Jan 12, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

I have Plextor's PX-708A, and it has been through warranty 3 times now

Well 2 year on-site so not a biggie, just silly tho. First drive lasted for ~month, the next warrantied drive lasted for ~1-2 days, and the third one a week. Then they finally sent me a working unit, that has been doing great for few years

But cons on Plextor drives are great. As far as I know, Plextor drives are the only ones I've seen that can bypass any copy-protection on audio-cd's, it reads them no problem without any hassle. Seems like it also somehow cheats copyprotections on some games, atleast my System Shock 2 starts up a lot faster on the PX drive, like it doesn't even do the safedisk-part. Haven't had a single coaster on my 708A after I got this working one either.

I have the same drive and an older Plextor CD-RW. My first PX-708A was bad too, but the one I have now has been going strong for at least 2 years. Yeah, they need better QA, but when they get it right they really get it right. They write flawlessly on just about anything. I'll bet it'd write to a frisbee if you could get it in the tray.